True Healing Discussion (Live 6/25)

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  • So health packs will go to 10 now to compensate for nerfing healing ? That's the only thing that Couid help make this horse sized bitter pill swallowable
  • clf_02 X3 wrote:
    Finally an end to widow, ares and widow, Thor teams beat 3* teams. That has been so silly.

    If OBW's blue ability was "passive: does nothing" I'd still build a 3/5/5 OBW and it would be only very slightly less effective against 3* teams
  • so every PVE team will now be patch/daken + featured character so you only need to us HP's on featured character...

    people can stop talking about OBW nerf now...
  • user311
    user311 Posts: 482 Mover and Shaker
    Did you beta this? Can you upload a video of it? If it truly is just a cash grab - you know if it is or isn't - You do realize you cannot be fired for whistleblowing right? I mean obvious you didn't mention this before the sale and now all of a sudden do. That's something to bring up to Naz' bff.
  • Puertorico
    Puertorico Posts: 50
    I would guess any health gained from the temporary characters only last during that match and the character goes to their previous health post match where Patch, Daken, etc. are able to truly heal.

    This makes sense and as someone who has never used a healing character to heal myself I am ok with this change but I know a lot of people won't be happy. Hopefully this leads to less OBW being used, getting tired of her.







    I guess that makes more sense. Still obw takes a downfall for her ability. And she hulk hasn't been released and already doesn't seem to attractive
  • us 2* players trying to gather iso and 3* covers need OBW healing, alot of otehr tiny kitty stuff is going to have to change to make this a feasible change

    I have a level 85 ares thor OBE storm and wolverine, which i think is a solid amount of max 2stars and no way i will be able to push half as much in pvp without healing, I use it almost every battle.

    I am in a good alliance and will probably deal with me struggling for a while, but people who have even less than me are just effed. maybe making health packs refresh twice as fast and making the max 10 is a fair compromise. but i doubt that will happen.


    also, its been 2 hours and we already have 126 replies to this, does anyone know when its actually going to be rolled out?
  • Nerfing OBW and Spideys healing are really the priority right now?????

    This game needs an influx of new ideas. It is stale and repetitive and THIS is how they've decided to promote roster diversity? How uninspired, unimaginative and lazy, D3.

    ...... and they claim it has nothing to do with increasing health pack sales? I call ****.
  • over_clocked
    over_clocked Posts: 3,961
    Still reading the thread but did they just announce they are going to cripple 2* players that HAVE to rely on oBW?
    I'm in tears; I can do well enough for myself, having several 141s by now, but our alliance actually has a lot of 2* rosters, what did you do to all of them? THAT'S YOUR PLAYERBASE! Not whales/longtime players with already diverse rosters!
  • You know after reading all the posts, why is this an up coming "feature"?

    Serious question.
  • over_clocked
    over_clocked Posts: 3,961
    I understand that Phantron argument 'if everyone has an advantage, no one has', but goddammit if this is not the last thing to be nerfed right now.
    Pray tell, how does PvP look for a 2* player from D3's POV? Shield after every tiny climb for healthpacks to restore?
  • rixmith
    rixmith Posts: 707 Critical Contributor
    I really think this change needs to be paired with a change to how Defensive Teams are handled. Some conceptually simple ideas:

    1. Your defensive team is a randomly selected team that matches the number of stars and levels of your offensive team (they don't even have to be on your roster). That way everyone will have fairly **** defensive teams, but at least it will apply to everyone.

    2. Adjust the points you lose on a defensive loss based on how long it has been since you used that particular team. Or how many different team combinations you have used during the event. Something to make it advantageous to have used those different teams. Because it should be great fun to play cStorm and MNMags, but because they get pounced on by everyone (and you lose -40 to some guy who just started the event) it is painful. Instead give the players a bonus for using their roster.

    3. Give a defensive buff for combinations you haven't used in an event. I don't think you need offensive buffs (you have such an advantage on offense anyway).

    The main thing is... don't just take away something that makes the game very fun (being able to take a team with a healer and run it through for a Lightning Round for instance, which, incidentally I expect will now be impossible for a 2* team to do well in) but fix the fundamental problem that makes this behavior necessary (2* defensive teams other than Thor/Ares/Widow get mercilessly destroyed).

    Or maybe at least have Temporary Healing allow you to exit a match with whatever health you started the match with, even if you can't go above that.
  • Chimaera wrote:
    You know after reading all the posts, why is this an up coming "feature"?

    Serious question.

    yeah i laughed when i saw that too, their intent is ok, their idea to make it happen is just terrible
  • The following point has been touched on briefly in this thread but I want to make this crystal clear:

    Removing healing in this manner will force players to decide: either buy healing packs or stop playing until their injured characters recover.

    Players who decide not to buy healing packs, which will be the majority, will instead put down the game.

    Hardcore players who used to grind for hours to place in events will then play an hour or two until their characters are too dead/injured to play.

    More casual players who used to only play for an hour or so per session will play even less.

    When all players (except for a few whales) play for net fewer hours, this means lower user engagement and more dropoff as players use their newfound downtime waiting for their teams to heal to discover other games or pastimes.

    In plain English, players who more frequently put down the game are far less likely to pick it up again.

    When the players go away, there will be no one left to pay. This will directly damage D3P/Demiurge's bottom line.

    I know you think that making this change will force players to buy more health packs (let's not beat around the bush, that's clearly what this was about or you would simply have disabled healing in prologue but kept it enabled in PVP/PVE events), but it will have other ramifications as well.

    This game is not consumer packaged goods where increasing the price of canned tuna in aisle 3 will have no effect on the sales of eggs and bread in aisle 5.

    This game is a live, software-as-a-service product with very complex systems in place, many of which you've admitted to not actually having figured out yet (PVE rubberbanding, PVP matchmaking, etc.).

    There is no such thing as a simple, quick-and-easy, surgical change to better monetize only one area of the game that will have no effect on others.

    Is this change openly hostile to players? Yes. Does it adversely and directly affect player experience? Yes. And surely, these issues will only be articulated by the vocal minority on the forums, who, of course, can be safely ignored.

    However, I repeat: this change will also lead directly to decreased user engagement, attrition, and lower player population that will hurt D3P's bottom line.

    If you don't want to hurt your company, do not go through with this change. Instead, disable healing in the prologue only.
  • IceIX wrote:
    <snip> It's not something that's fun. It's not something that's enjoyable. It's something that exists and is taken advantage of because of pure efficiency.

    What we intend, and continue to drill in on is that we want players to have a broad mix of characters instead of a Top 3 that is their sole team to play with. <Snip!>

    <snip> players see that they can't just rely on in-battle healing and look for other ways besides spending Health Packs to continue playing. <snip>.

    So what I take from this is:

    1) It takes 7-8 hours to heal up a hero unless you use a health pack. OWB/Spidey healing decreases that time, so we're taking that away. Buy yourself some health packs!

    2) We'd really, really like you to keep expanding your roster slots, so we're making it so that you need to play with more characters rather than relying on the ones you have which are strongest in your current team. Buy some roster slots!

    3) A combination of #1 and #2 ensures that you're going to be playing less, or paying more.

    Did I get all that?
  • Unknown
    edited June 2014
    New 2* combo can now be Daken and wolverine 2 star. They both heal but not a constant steal heal combo. I like it. I'm sorry some people wanna be able to beat 3* teams with 2* covers but that is not fair to people who have lvled up 3* characters to lose to these obw, ares and obw, Thor teams. This is a proper fix to that issue. But should have been released together with a patch to fix bracketing. Someone with all 2* shouldn't be in a bracket with someone with an all 3* team or having to fight them.
  • ...there's actually another option. they get data from the change. they adjust character downtime to maintain gameplay time for players. they kind of have to have data before they can see if they need to make this change.
  • I do have a serious question, I alwasy found prologue healing to not work well at all with OBW; either i get hurt too much or i kill the character with match damage b4 i can heal

    are there active players who use prologue healing currently effectively to gain an advantage? I understand b4 with spiderman it was probably easier cause you would freeze the otehr team pretty easily, but thats not the case anymore.
  • FierceKiwi
    FierceKiwi Posts: 505 Critical Contributor
    clf_02 X3 wrote:
    New 2* combo can now be Daken and wolverine 2 star. They both heal but not a constant steal heal combo. I like it. I'm sorry some people wanna be able to beat 3* teams with 2* covers but that is not fair to people who have lvled up 3* characters to lose to these obw, ares and obw, teams. This is a proper fix to that issue. But should have been released in together with a patch to fix bracketing. Someone with all 2* shouldn't be in a bracket with someone with an all 3* team.

    Except 2* players will rarely attack 3* teams (even a team with just a 100+ 3* is usually a decent deterant) unless they're worth tons of points or are desperate. Swapping in a 102 Punisher for Thor pretty much instantly ended all the attacks I recieved from 2* teams.
  • Unknown
    edited June 2014
    FierceKiwi wrote:
    clf_02 X3 wrote:
    New 2* combo can now be Daken and wolverine 2 star. They both heal but not a constant steal heal combo. I like it. I'm sorry some people wanna be able to beat 3* teams with 2* covers but that is not fair to people who have lvled up 3* characters to lose to these obw, ares and obw, teams. This is a proper fix to that issue. But should have been released in together with a patch to fix bracketing. Someone with all 2* shouldn't be in a bracket with someone with an all 3* team.

    Except 2* players will rarely attack 3* teams (even a team with just a 100+ 3* is usually a decent deterant) unless they're worth tons of points or are desperate. Swapping in a 102 Punisher for Thor pretty much instantly ended all the attacks I recieved from 2* teams.


    I use patch, daken and whatever event cover is and lose a few times a day to obw 2* teams. Just checked I have 2 people to revenge that beat me with obw, ares, and a loaner torch. This shouldn't happen. I spent WAY more time and iso to lvl patch and daken than they did to lvl obw and ares.
  • FierceKiwi
    FierceKiwi Posts: 505 Critical Contributor
    Pjoe0211 wrote:
    I do have a serious question, I alwasy found prologue healing to not work well at all with OBW; either i get hurt too much or i kill the character with match damage b4 i can heal

    are there active players who use prologue healing currently effectively to gain an advantage? I understand b4 with spiderman it was probably easier cause you would freeze the otehr team pretty easily, but thats not the case anymore.

    You just use OBW in goon only nodes...and if you have a decent enough Hood you go to the last chapter and fight the Maggia goons with OBW + Hood + hurt guy. OBW and Hood leach blue that the goons generate and you can get off 3-5 level 5 AGD's a match (1800-3000 healing even if there are CDs littering the board).
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