Doom or glory? [3* scaling experiment with a 5*]

DFiPL
DFiPL Posts: 2,405 Chairperson of the Boards
edited November 2015 in MPQ General Discussion
Got my 10 CP daily reward last night on mobile. Pulled a token. Token contained Old Man Logan redflag.png.

Well, hell. What's a secondary account for if not some guinea piggery? I only have 44 mobile characters, compared to 66 on Steam. One 13-cover 3* compared to 30. 11 characters at 102+ instead of 35 or so at 114+.

So it won't be an exact comparison for obvious reasons. But when I get home tonight, I'm gonna play the Hunt with both accounts and compare scaling. Because I seldom pve on mobile it will probably take a few events for things to settle. I will say, anecdotally, that my scaling was identical between the accounts in the final sub of Prodigal. I rostered OML and leveled everybody I could to 102-104 before entering Prodigal on mobile, for what that's worth.

Mobile roster:

Hulk, 5/3/5, 104
Quicksilver, 4/5/3, 104
Doom, 5/4/1, 104
Magneto, 4/3/3, 104
Cap, 3/2/5, 104
Punisher, 5/3/2, 104
Widow, 3/1/4, 104
Khan, 2/4/2, 102
Cage: ditto
Mystique, 3/3/2, 102

My Steam roster is mainly 120 and predominantly 12-13 covers so I won't list that here. Pointless.

But I'll follow up with posts containing scaling for each sub with each account.
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Comments

  • BlackSheep101
    BlackSheep101 Posts: 2,025 Chairperson of the Boards
    I've been really looking forward to someone doing just this! May I request that you change the subject line to something more informative so others will know what you're doing?
  • DFiPL
    DFiPL Posts: 2,405 Chairperson of the Boards
    I've been really looking forward to someone doing just this! May I request that you change the subject line to something more informative so others will know what you're doing?

    I'll try. There's a character limit but I'll play with it and see what I can do.
  • Malcrof
    Malcrof Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards
    DFiPL wrote:
    I've been really looking forward to someone doing just this! May I request that you change the subject line to something more informative so others will know what you're doing?

    I'll try. There's a character limit but I'll play with it and see what I can do.

    Nice call on the name change.

    May i suggest, check scaling 2 ways.

    First run through.. don't use OML...
    wait on 2nd sub ... see if it goes any higher
    in 2nd sub, use OML
    wait on 3rd sub, see if using him is different than just having him on roster.

    Similar experiments have been done.. but, not that one i think.
  • DFiPL
    DFiPL Posts: 2,405 Chairperson of the Boards
    Malcrof wrote:
    DFiPL wrote:
    I've been really looking forward to someone doing just this! May I request that you change the subject line to something more informative so others will know what you're doing?

    I'll try. There's a character limit but I'll play with it and see what I can do.

    Nice call on the name change.

    May i suggest, check scaling 2 ways.

    First run through.. don't use OML...
    wait on 2nd sub ... see if it goes any higher
    in 2nd sub, use OML
    wait on 3rd sub, see if using him is different than just having him on roster.

    Similar experiments have been done.. but, not that one i think.

    Well, because I don't play pve on mobile much the plan at first is to play an event or two with him on the roster but not using him. See what happens.

    I played one clear of one sub in a late-join on Prodigal using him when I could, and scaling was equal to my main account.

    So what I want to do first is play both main and mobile the same way - i.e. no use of OML beyond having him on roster. That'll last through Hunt and maybe the pve after.

    By #3, I'm going to start using him, and I may try it your way. That said, we're told scaling doesn't change in mid-event, so I don't know how useful alternating subs will be.
  • Malcrof
    Malcrof Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards
    DFiPL wrote:
    I played one clear of one sub in a late-join on Prodigal using him when I could

    No way to un-use him.. once done, there wouldn't be a way to do the other experiment.
  • DFiPL
    DFiPL Posts: 2,405 Chairperson of the Boards
    Malcrof wrote:
    DFiPL wrote:
    I played one clear of one sub in a late-join on Prodigal using him when I could

    No way to un-use him.. once done, there wouldn't be a way to do the other experiment.

    Well, because Wolverine was my opponent in several nodes I only got to use him like, twice. But we'll see what happens moving forward.
  • DFiPL
    DFiPL Posts: 2,405 Chairperson of the Boards
    Also he's at 255. Didn't level him to 270.
  • DFiPL
    DFiPL Posts: 2,405 Chairperson of the Boards
    While I'm on my last break, the "Small Business" node of Growth Industry has Iron Man at 113, the Commander at 112 and the Soldier at 113 on mobile. Will compare that with Steam in about 20 minutes.
  • DFiPL
    DFiPL Posts: 2,405 Chairperson of the Boards
    DFiPL wrote:
    While I'm on my last break, the "Small Business" node of Growth Industry has Iron Man at 113, the Commander at 112 and the Soldier at 113 on mobile. Will compare that with Steam in about 20 minutes.

    On Steam, Iron Man is 97; the Commander and the Soldier are both 96. What's uncertain, of course, is whether I'm seeing the 16 level differential because I *have* OML on Mobile or because I used him in two nodes. Well, either way, that's our starting baseline.

    My top five characters on Steam are Groot (141), Storm (133), and pick-three at 120. That averages to 131 if the top three are used for the average, or 127 if the top 5 are. On mobile, of course, it's 255, 104, 104, 104, 104, for an average of 154 from the top 3 or 134 from the top 5.

    I'm not going to use OML for a while now, as I've said, and see if breaking my teeth on the higher scaling on mobile softens it to be more in line with what I'm used to seeing. That said, the 113 doesn't seem un-doable. We'll see if that changes as I progress through the event.
  • DFiPL
    DFiPL Posts: 2,405 Chairperson of the Boards
    Gonna progress through Steam first and then compare with the nodes on mobile as I can (since I don't know how many of them I'll even be capable of beating).

    Second node, "Mustard Seed of Destruction": Doom at 100, Defender at 101, Decoy at 100 on Steam.

    Third node, "Inner Space Cadet": 4 waves, range 85-93 on Steam.

    Fourth node, "Okay, Yeah, They're Dolls": Hulk @ 126, Thor @125, Cap @ 126 on Steam.

    Fifth node, "Big Things One Day Come," 5 waves, range 111-111 on Steam. Not going to run that yet.
  • DFiPL
    DFiPL Posts: 2,405 Chairperson of the Boards
    DFiPL wrote:
    Gonna progress through Steam first and then compare with the nodes on mobile as I can (since I don't know how many of them I'll even be capable of beating).

    Second node, "Mustard Seed of Destruction": Doom at 100, Defender at 101, Decoy at 100 on Steam.

    117x3 on mobile. The increase from node 1 to 2 is about the same on mobile as it is on Steam. Just a higher base level from which to start.
    Third node, "Inner Space Cadet": 4 waves, range 85-93 on Steam.

    100-109 on mobile. That's as far as I've gotten because Deadpool unleashed WHALES on me in wave 4/4, killing everybody. It didn't seem unreasonable, but the I-win button definitely works both ways.
    Fourth node, "Okay, Yeah, They're Dolls": Hulk @ 126, Thor @125, Cap @ 126 on Steam.

    Fifth node, "Big Things One Day Come," 5 waves, range 111-111 on Steam. Not going to run that yet.

    Will continue to strive for these so I can draw comparisons. Man, I wish my mobile Cap had red5.
  • DFiPL
    DFiPL Posts: 2,405 Chairperson of the Boards
    Now comes The Hunt.

    First qualification node, with the loaner, is identical for both accounts, at 3x100. I mean, given that it's a loaner fight, I guess you'd expect it to be identical.

    Qualifying node 2, with no loaner, is also identical. 33/34/34.

    Having beaten both of those, we move on to Alaska. The first node in Alaska is identical: 33/34/34.

    Node 2, Easy Pickins, is identical also: 43/43/43 for both accounts.

    Node 3, More Fodder, is where we see our first divergence. on Steam, it's 105/106/106. On mobile, it's 3x118. Surprisingly, that's a one-time node. I was starting to think repeatable, non-loaner is where we'd diverge.

    Node 4, Clever Girl, is identical: 33/34/34.

    Here's where it starts to get interesting.

    Clever Girl II: 137/138/138 on Steam, 149/150/149 on mobile. The level gap seems to be narrowing some when there's divergence.

    Clever Girl III: 146/147/147 for both.

    Let's Dance: 168x3 for both.

    The Hunter: 3x43 for both.

    Jean Grey essential: 96/97/96 on Steam, 112/113/113 on mobile.

    Beast essential: 100/101/100 on both.

    Hawkeye (2) essential: 103/104/103 on both.

    So basically there's one non-essential node with a level difference, and one essential node with a level difference. The two essentials mobile lacks, there's no difference. The one mobile has, there IS a difference. Otherwise, in the vanilla nodes, only one differs at all.

    Well, until we see what the final vanilla node looks like.
  • OneLastGambit
    OneLastGambit Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    Interesting post, I've been curious about the effects of 5* on PVE since the devs say it shouldn't make any.
  • DFiPL
    DFiPL Posts: 2,405 Chairperson of the Boards
    Here we are in Florida!

    Node 1, "The Chariot," is a one-time node. Scaling is identical between mobile and Steam: 33/34/34.

    Node 2, "Call Him Colonel Fury," likewise: 43/43/43

    Node 3, "Not Very Subtle," likewise: 33/34/34

    Node 4, "Thou Shalt Not Pass": 69/70/70 for both.

    Node 5, "Divide and Conquer": 43/43/43 for both.

    After that, a bunch of nodes opened up. In no particular order:

    "LMD Assault," displays as "easy" on mobile and "normal" on Steam. Both are 138/139/138.

    "Jump Jets 2," displays as "normal" on both. Both are 138/139/138.

    "Knocking at the Door" displays as "normal" on both. Both are 146/147/147.

    "I'm In Your Base" follows the "LMD Assault" pattern: displays as easy on mobile, normal on Steam, but both are 137/138/138.

    "Ares" is normal for both, 3x168 for both.

    "Jump Jets" is normal for both, 153/154/153 for both.

    Essentials:

    Jean Grey is 112/113/113 on mobile, 96/97/96 on Steam; Beast is 106/107/107 on mobile, same on Steam; and Hawkeye is 3x109 on both. There appear to be 3 other nodes, but I haven't opened those yet on either.

    So far, though, sub 2 has just one node with different scaling at all. Is that because I haven't used OML? Hard to know.
  • GothicKratos
    GothicKratos Posts: 1,821 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'll prelude this by saying I don't play a ton of PvE, but no haven't noticed a change in difficulty since I got my Surfer or OML.
  • SirLanik
    SirLanik Posts: 345 Mover and Shaker
    Extensive PVE play since rostering Surfer and OML (both the day they came out... lucky pulls) with my roster that otherwise averages like, level 140, and I haven't had a noticeable change for PVE.

    I routinely placed top 50 PVE before rostering them, and I routinely place top 50 after rostering them.

    Now PVP is a whole different story.... huge difference there, and where I used to routinely get 700+ points every PVP, now I'm lucky if I can scrape up to 400 points. Really lucky.
  • Mikey Boy
    Mikey Boy Posts: 14 Just Dropped In
    Watching this with interest, as I'm at the 3* level (several characters at L166), and have just got my first 5* cover from a Legendary. I guess I have 2 weeks to make a decision on whether to keep or sell him.
  • Great research! Great post!

    My roster, otherwise capped at 127, has a single cover L270 SS pulled during anniversary fortnight. I stopped using him pretty quickly after getting him, and drastically scaled back my playing of the game overall due to PvE scaling and PvP matchmaking changing drastically. Anecdotally, I feel that scaling on PvE more or less returned to 'normal' when the last Heroic event ran about 2 weeks ago. Scaling appeared to be 'normal' during the Heroic event because SS was unusable, but 'normal' levels of scaling seem to have continued past that, I don't know whether this is tied to not using SS anymore, merely coincidence, or rather if scaling was affected in the last patch (which I think went out during the Heroic)?

    PvP is basically an unwelcoming wall of death for me these days though. I had just started hitting 800 regularly before drawing Surfer, now I need to be pretty determined to push to 300 through all the maxed Luke Cages out there. I had an easier time in PvP during my 1-2* transition. Just can't back it up with statistics or evidence.

    Surely this either turns people away from the game or forces players to scale themselves back to a very casual level of play? The developers obviously have statistics to analyse this, but I would expect a clear decline in willing investors in the game as a result of this. I know I am now playing very casually and unlikely to spend on the game again if PvP matchmaking is not adjusted.
  • DFiPL
    DFiPL Posts: 2,405 Chairperson of the Boards
    Grantosium wrote:
    Great research! Great post!

    My roster, otherwise capped at 127, has a single cover L270 SS pulled during anniversary fortnight. I stopped using him pretty quickly after getting him, and drastically scaled back my playing of the game overall due to PvE scaling and PvP matchmaking changing drastically. Anecdotally, I feel that scaling on PvE more or less returned to 'normal' when the last Heroic event ran about 2 weeks ago. Scaling appeared to be 'normal' during the Heroic event because SS was unusable, but 'normal' levels of scaling seem to have continued past that, I don't know whether this is tied to not using SS anymore, merely coincidence, or rather if scaling was affected in the last patch (which I think went out during the Heroic)?

    Don't know. I mean, the upcoming Heroic fills me with dread. YAY BOOSTED JUGGERNAUT HEADBUTTING YOU TO DEATH OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND

    so I don't know if I'm going to participate in that. The experiment may be on hiatus until the subsequent event.

    But it does feel as though scaling on the mobile account has dropped ever so slightly since I first rostered OML. Possibly because I'm not using him? I don't know. But the scaling has still been roughly equivalent to my Steam account, where most of my 3* are at 120, even though my mobile is at 104 and only three characters have even 12 covers. So, I mean, I suspect without OML at all mobile would still have more friendly scaling going on. But the gut take "so far" is that there's a moderate influence, but that where you really get your **** kicked is if you use the 5* because you feel you "have to." Because scaling in subsequent events will likely go up to account for that usage.
    PvP is basically an unwelcoming wall of death for me these days though. I had just started hitting 800 regularly before drawing Surfer, now I need to be pretty determined to push to 300 through all the maxed Luke Cages out there. I had an easier time in PvP during my 1-2* transition. Just can't back it up with statistics or evidence.

    Haven't even looked at PVP yet. I think Track & Slash was the first mobile PVP event in which I participated in like six months or something like that. So in theory mobile "should" be in n00b brackets. I wonder what it would look like.
  • DFiPL wrote:


    But it does feel as though scaling on the mobile account has dropped ever so slightly since I first rostered OML. Possibly because I'm not using him? I don't know. But the scaling has still been roughly equivalent to my Steam account, where most of my 3* are at 120, even though my mobile is at 104 and only three characters have even 12 covers. So, I mean, I suspect without OML at all mobile would still have more friendly scaling going on. But the gut take "so far" is that there's a moderate influence, but that where you really get your **** kicked is if you use the 5* because you feel you "have to." Because scaling in subsequent events will likely go up to account for that usage.


    If it helps, I haven't used either of my 5*s, and I documented my experience of scaling and MMR on my Level 127-130 3*s in the other "effects of 5*s on scaling" thread.

    PvE largely unplayable (excluding "trivial" nodes), PvP basically unplayable, and DDQ untouched.

    Still hoping the Ant-Man event realizes I don't actually use either of my 5*s, but the scaling is unchanged, and unbeatable beyond the second node now (thanks to some luck and T-U spamming).

    Unused 5*s for me, and a (mostly) unplayable game.

    DBC