Some other reasons besides luck the 5* might be bad for MPQ

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Comments

  • fight4thedream
    fight4thedream GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,908 Chairperson of the Boards
    I agree that the implementation of the legendary tokens and 5* characters seem to be more harmful to the overall health of the game. As Colognoisseur has pointed out, one of the major mistakes was making the Legendary tokens available as PvE awards. However, this falls in line with the overall design model of the game. And what I mean by that is that there is no clearly defined tier system beyond the star system used for characters. All sense of progression in this game is strictly tied to your ability to acquire characters.

    All events are open and playable to everyone. Yes, there is a secret bracketing system that divides the player base into n00b brackets and vet brackets but essentially everyone is playing the same event for the same rewards. I believe this is why they decided to offer Legendary tokens as the final progression reward.

    Although a discussion on the problems and complications of utilizing a scaling system instead of a tiered event system would be an interesting topic to pursue, that unfortunately is a whole different discussion and I instead would like to focus on what the devs should have done in terms of end game progression and 5* release:

    First, they should have made Legendary tokens available only through command points. They should have never been offered as rewards for PvP and PvE, and I argue they should have never been included with 40 pack purchases either (despite the big windfall they have apparently made from including them). Instead what they should have done is increased the rewards for PvP and included supplementary CP rewards for PvE.

    The PvP progression reward structure should look like this:

    Up to 1000 same rewards
    1300 4* cover
    1500 4* cover
    1600 5 CP
    1800 10 CP
    2000 20 CP

    Placement awards would be the same with the addition of CP:
    Top 1 10 CP
    Top 5 5 CP
    Top 10 3 CP
    Top 25 2 CP
    Top 50 1 CP

    Alliance awards
    Top 10 15 CP
    Top 50 10 CP
    Top 100 5 CP

    For PvE, instead of a Legendary token they should have just made the final progression award a 4* cover and placement awards similar to PvP placement. No CP nodes.

    4* DDQ would offer 30CP.

    This allows players to determine how much they want to play an event and avoids the disappointment that comes with opening a Legendary token and being disappointed to get another cover they already have. I would set the Legendary token cost at about 300 CP.

    Sure, offering alliance CP through purchases of HP would still fly since the devs do need to make money but I think we wouldn't see as much rampant spending as we have with some players. (Then again you never know)

    The goal is that top end players are getting 1 token every 10 days, mid level player every 15-20 days and semi-casual players 1 a month.

    Additionally, once attaining a cover you can purchase one with CP for 600 CP. And yes, if you manage to pull a 5* cover you no longer need, you could sell it for 25 CP.

    Second, Legendary tokens should only contain 5* characters. In order to prevent players from getting a particular character covered too quickly, they should have released 6 different 5* characters. At 3 covers a month, only the luckiest of the lucky (or the richest of the rich) would have a character fully covered within 4 months. Additionally, no one would feel cheated by their effort since you are guaranteed a new character.

    Third, 5* characters would not be "battle-ready" just by having a few covers. Instead, each cover would unlock better and better abilities.

    For example, Silver Surfer's Perfect Being blue power:
    1st cover: basic healing
    2nd cover: basic healing plus creates one charged tile
    3rd cover: passive cannot be stunned, 15,000 healing and two charged tiles
    4th cover: passive, 20,000 healing, three charged tiles
    5th cover: passive, 25,000 healing, 4 charged tiles

    His Silver Singularity would do start off as it is now but by the 3rd cover you would would see initial damage from the creation of the black hole and the 5th cover would include random enemy AP loss with each turn the black hole is active.

    Old Man Wolvie and Phoenix would see similar treatments where possible. (For example, Wolvie would actually stay a pacifist unless you had all 5 black covers, his yellow would only account for other team members from 3rd cover and so on).

    The reason for this is quite simple: You don't want players with weaker rosters skipping things just because they managed to get their hands on a few OLM covers. Ideally, information about the 5* would be kept secret so people would have to learn as they go. So yes, no pre-release stat info and all that jazz. In the age of data mining I know this is wishful thinking but it would definitely draw the community together to figure out which builds are the best and imagine the excitement you would feel from reaching that 3rd Silver Surfer cover to learn that he can't be stunned! Or you get that 5th Wolvie black and learn the man can go berserk and kill the enemy team ten times over instead of just spit out strong strike tiles!

    Anyway, I'm getting tired and my mind is starting to wander so let me end it here by saying that the damage is already done and what I have just said is all with the benefit of hindsight. Still, there are ways they can rectify the perceived problems Colognoisseur has highlighted. I think removing the Legendary token from both PvE and PvP and replacing them with 4* covers would be a good start. That way players won't feel the need to take the risk if the reward is a cover they don't need. Increasing the reward structure for PvP at the top end would also help as even in baby PvP brackets none of them are going to go beyond 1000.

    In sum, giving your 3-4* transitioners more power to determine whether an event is worth the effort and resources while rewarding top players who go the distance and protecting the 2-3* players from skipping stages of the transition.

    The end.
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    As a creator of some board games with friends, tweaking and altering etc. is a natural course of any game. Sometimes you don't see all the angles, but 1000 people playing your game do.

    Buffing/nerfing is the only way to keep the game from full on free fall.

    If 5*'s are indeed at there intended levels I would do this.

    a team of all 5* should beat any team.
    a team of all 4* should beat any team below 5
    a team of all 3* should beat any team below 4
    a team of all 2* should beat any team below 3

    flip side and considering boosts.
    A team of 2 boosted 4* should beat any non boosted team
    A team of 2 boosted 3* should beat any non boosted 4* team and split with 5* teams
    A team of 3 boosted 2* should beat any non boosted 3* team, split with 4* teams, and not beat 5*'s
    A team of 3 boosted 1* should beat any non boosted 2* team, split with 3* teams, and beat nothing higher

    There is room for tweaking, but you need to keep 3*'s as the bread and butter. There is no question. 2* used to be very, very similar to 3* except 4*'s were rare and sucked, but before they became random awards from just playing, they were much harder to obtain, until 3*'s become that you cannot force anything more. A player with a maxed 3* roster and nothing more should be able to take down any lineup in the game assuming all 3 of there's are boosted.

    That's how the game needs to be balanced. If 3*'s get handed out easier, then and only then can you officially make 4*'s the gold standard.

    My only other issue in regards to balance is that the boosted 4*'s in PvP should be toned down, because it really hurts 3*'s unless that's the plan.
  • Well YES, 5* is changing this game for the worst, everyone with full covered 5* should be in different events and that will never happen. Even if i would get a full cover 5* for free tomorrow, I would not change my mine, 5* will kill this game . Finally, I might be able to quit this game for ever pretty soon, YEH!!
    And for people spending thousands of $$$ on this do-do bird game for fictional characters, you guys are nuts for doing that even if you have too much money !!! oh and sorry for saying so... icon_lol.gif
    And if you have too much money, you can always help a few charity's instead of this !! icon_e_wink.gif
  • SnowcaTT
    SnowcaTT Posts: 3,486 Chairperson of the Boards
    Akari wrote:
    kensterr wrote:
    One of my alliance mate quit the game altogether because he had no luck with his legendary tokens at all... I think it was 0 or 1 5* out of 50+ tokens. And he played since the game started.

    I've quit 2 games so far for this reason, even one I spent over a year on and a bit of money. 3 months of absolutely 0 luck in a row will do that to you, but luck is luck, gambling is gambling, and it comes down to whether you're willing to stick with the game through the bad as well as the good.

    I was worried about these initially...but it ended up being much worse than I expected it to be.

    We've all seen the same thing as the OP mentions. I'm -very- carefully watching how the 5*'s will be treated going forward. If I can put two years into the game and be greatly overwhelmed by 2* rosters that have gotten much more lucky than I have with 5* covers....that will be the end of play for me.
  • The biggest problem I see is that there is no room in the current meta for an additional tier. 2* rosters struggle in PvP to the point where most players don't bother. Once 5*s take hold, the same will be true for 3* rosters. That's bad because PvP is a big part of the progression from 2->3* transitioner to solid 3* and 3->4* transitioner. The end game doesn't change TOO much, but there will be no way for players to even get to that point.

    The other flaw I see as players start to get well covered/leveled 5*s is battle time. It's already tough to get high scores in PvP, even with maxed 4* teams, because as soon as you break your shield you are getting hit within 5 minutes. Fighting multiple characters with over 30k health takes time, and will make hopping impractical.
  • DaveR4470
    DaveR4470 Posts: 931 Critical Contributor
    Great thread, lots of fantastic analysis in here. I don't really disagree with anything in here. The 5*s were premature; the game needed to develop 3*-4* gameplay and revamp scaling/gameflow issues before launching a new tier. And bundling LTs as a 5* and a 4* generation device wasn't a great idea either. I need 4* covers right now, and I haven't been playing a lot (and haven't been super-competitive when I do), and yet I'm sitting with a 3-cover SS, and 1-cover OML and Phoenix. If these are elite rewards for the best of the best.... well, that sure ain't me, bruddah.
  • puppychow
    puppychow Posts: 1,453

    The other flaw I see as players start to get well covered/leveled 5*s is battle time. It's already tough to get high scores in PvP, even with maxed 4* teams, because as soon as you break your shield you are getting hit within 5 minutes. Fighting multiple characters with over 30k health takes time, and will make hopping impractical.

    Absolutely correct, and probably by design too! icon_twisted.gif Management wants to sell heals. So what better way to do that than to make battles go longer?
  • scottee
    scottee Posts: 1,609 Chairperson of the Boards
    puppychow wrote:

    The other flaw I see as players start to get well covered/leveled 5*s is battle time. It's already tough to get high scores in PvP, even with maxed 4* teams, because as soon as you break your shield you are getting hit within 5 minutes. Fighting multiple characters with over 30k health takes time, and will make hopping impractical.

    Absolutely correct, and probably by design too! icon_twisted.gif Management wants to sell heals. So what better way to do that than to make battles go longer?

    That doesn't sell health packs. It makes players quit because they take 8-min to shield hop one battle and lose 300 points.