PVE Scaling Testing - Enemy Of The State (03/17/16)

David [Hi-Fi] Moore
David [Hi-Fi] Moore Posts: 2,872 Site Admin
edited March 2016 in MPQ General Discussion
Hello everyone,

Beginning tomorrow (Thursday, March 17, 2016) we will be testing out some new scaling adjustments during the Enemy of the State event.

Here’s word from Anthony at Demiurge:

Mission Difficulty Adjustment Test

We will be running a one-event test for the mission difficulty adjustment feature for the story event Enemy of the State this Thursday. We are making a big change to the difficulty and how missions re-play. The main things we are trying to accomplish with this change are improving how mission difficulty is calculated and making missions more about completing challenging-but-fun missions rather than playing missions quickly, at set times during the day.

Mission Difficulty
The first thing I want to talk about is how the difficulty of the missions are changing. Previously, the system presented you with opponents based on your characters’ levels. There was a couple of quirks with this system. In some circumstances, it could be disadvantageous to level characters, or to add a high-level character to your roster. Now, the game will take into account both your heroes’ power levels and heroes’ levels into account when establishing the difficulty of the mission.

Playing When You Want to Play
The next big change we are introducing is how missions are re-played. Previously, after beating a mission, the strictly optimal strategy was to wait 8 hours and play it again. We wanted to update the system to give you more freedom about when you play the game.

In the test event, missions will be worth the same amount of points the first six times you play it. Missions get harder each of these times. Once a mission is beaten six times, the difficulty stops increasing.

After that, each time you beat a mission, it will be worth less points, similar to the old system. The amount of times it takes for a mission to be restored to full points after one play is 24 hours (up from 8). A mission can be beat 5 times (down from 6) until you reach the minimum amount of points a mission is worth, 20 points (up from 1). Our goal with this change is to make Story events more about beating challenging missions rather than having to beat missions quickly at set intervals during the day.

What’s Next?
The event after Enemy of the State will return to the original difficulty system. We will be looking at how people did and listen to what everyone is saying about it. Once we are comfortable with our findings, we will touch base with everyone again and let everyone know how it went and what we are planning on doing in the future.

We’re all pretty excited about the new changes and hope you enjoy them as well. As part of a thank-you for helping us with testing this system, we will be rewarding users who participate in it. Just for playing in the event, you will get three extra Enemy of the State tokens. If you place in the top 50 of your leaderboard you will also receive 10 Command Points. These will be gifted to everyone that participated the day after the event ends.

Addition info:

* Mission Difficulty Change (commonly referred to as scaling)
o Mission difficulty
    - We have changed the way the game determines which level enemies you should go against to be more accurate. Instead of basing difficulty solely on heroes’ levels, it takes your heroes’ power levels into account as well. - Previously, missions increased in difficulty based on your performance within the event. Mission difficulty is now set at the start of the event and does not change for the duration of the event. - In the old system, some players saw a big jump in difficulty between the easier missions in a chapter and the harder ones. That's been smoothed out. - Players at higher levels will begin to see enemies higher than 395. - As your roster gets stronger, you'll see enemies that are relatively easier. (Their levels will still increase, but more slowly than yours do.) - The amount of Power levels an opponent has is based on their level.
      · Opponents at base level or under will only have a single power level for each of their powers. This scales up to the max level which is 13 power levels. · Opponents shouldn’t have more than 13 Power levels at any point.


    o Missions increase in difficulty after beating them
      - After completing a mission, a screen is shown showing how many levels the enemy has gained. - Each mission will increase in difficulty six times. - Typically, Join Forces missions do not increase in difficulty.
    o The amount of points a mission is worth
      - The amount of points you earn while playing a mission no longer changes based on other players’ scores. (This was commonly referred to as rubber banding.) - The first six times you beat a Mission will be worth the same amount of points. - After the seventh time you beat a mission, it will be worth less points.
        · Each time you beat the mission after the seventh completion will increase the time it takes to receive full points by 24 hours · The amount of times it takes for a mission to reach the minimum amount of points it is worth is five times (down from six times)
        - The minimum amount of points a mission is worth is now 20 (increased from 1). - Typically, Join Forces missions decrease in points immediately after playing it once.”
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      Comments

      • spghttihead
        spghttihead Posts: 74 Match Maker
        This sounds great! Having to play every 8 hours was frustrating. Was doing great in the Sim PVE that's running now until I got slammed with work and won't be able to play for WELL after the 8hr. mark, meaning I'm basically just going for the CP now instead of placement. Hope these changes go well.
      • wymtime
        wymtime Posts: 3,757 Chairperson of the Boards
        Big thumbs up for the changes to the event and communication. A question for the devs is how will having a bunch of 4* at level 70 but 9 plus covers effect the difficulty of the nodes? I ask this because myself and probably others are only leveling 4* when they get 13 covers or are strong enough to win their 4* DPDQ. There are many 3-4* transition era out there who would like to level more 4* but are lacking the ISO to do so. When you look at the champion feature of you have long time players who championed thier 3* they will have opened a ton of LT by now and are sitting on multiple max covered 4* but lack the ISO to level them. I have 19 4* cover maxed but only 5 at 270. This is not because I am a soft capper but because it takes almost 400k ISO to max level a 4* and that takes a really long time. A little more explanation on this would be appreciated with some examples.

        Thanks
      • wymtime
        wymtime Posts: 3,757 Chairperson of the Boards
        Another question please advise when you say players at higher levels will see enemies at over 395, what is a higher level player? Also how is it as your roster gets stronger you will see easier battles. Isn't this the opposite?
      • udonomefoo
        udonomefoo Posts: 1,630 Chairperson of the Boards
        This sounds awesome, can't wait to try it out. Similar to wym, my first thought was about all my 8-12 cover 4*s that I don't have the iso to level and how that will affect me. I guess I will find out.

        Thanks for the clear, detailed info.
      • fmftint
        fmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
        This sounds terrible, new optimal will be, hit all 7x, walk away, grind the last 2 hours
      • mouser
        mouser Posts: 529 Critical Contributor
        Will the 1 or 2 day duration on event subs remain the same?
      • VonMatterhorn
        VonMatterhorn Posts: 42 Just Dropped In
        fmftint wrote:
        This sounds terrible, new optimal will be, hit all 7x, walk away, grind the last 2 hours

        I was going to comment this exact idea. However, I will say that this finally gives players more flexibility to play when they are free, rather than trying to schedule their lives around the most optimal times to play this game.
      • Killinstinct
        Killinstinct Posts: 99 Match Maker
        Nice I like this! This means I can play whenever I want.

        Optimal strategy is now to play each mission 11 times (and play them more for those 20 points)
      • antreas1911
        antreas1911 Posts: 113 Tile Toppler
        fmftint wrote:
        This sounds terrible, new optimal will be, hit all 7x, walk away, grind the last 2 hours
        This. Imagine it. Grind in the end each node 5 times till 20 (the new 1) and for zero iso. 5*9=45 battles. And right away, the new sub starts, another 7*9=63 battles. 108 in a row for the optimal grind. And this in an event with wave nodes.
      • babinro
        babinro Posts: 771 Critical Contributor
        I definitely have some concerns here.

        This sounds MUCH worse for anyone playing competitively (read top 10). If I'm understanding it right it means they'll need to sprint through clears at the start of each sub to get the most out of that 24 timer. Then they'll have to grind as normal at the end. Effectively increasing the number of clears and the time spent playing PvE.

        That being said...those of use who play a more relaxed PvE in the top 50 to Top 100+ range may have things way better. No need to optimize clear times sounds great!

        I'm obviously concerned about this level cap change as well. We'll have to see it play out but obviously no one wants to be fighting level 500 Juggs/Daken/Ares. Health pools already make for long matches at level 395....extending the cap won't make things more fun. I'd rather see more damage as a means to increase difficulty than more health.

        I'm excited to check it out though.
      • pabasa130
        pabasa130 Posts: 208 Tile Toppler
        fmftint wrote:
        This sounds terrible, new optimal will be, hit all 7x, walk away, grind the last 2 hours

        Not sure how different that is from today. Two hour grind before end of subevent has always been what people do anyway. The only change is instead of waiting 8 hours people can just do the first 7 at any time (preferably as early as possible).
      • ZeiramMR
        ZeiramMR Posts: 1,357 Chairperson of the Boards
        I was typing up a longer version of what fmftint said, but two other things. Outside of the replays that diminish scores, two people could play each node the same way (let's say 4 replays for each node), and the person who did it earlier in the day will place higher. (As opposed to currently where it could go either way due to rubberbanding)

        And if 20 points becomes the minimum, couldn't someone theoretically spend a large but feasible amount of time grinding nodes and outscore people doing said optimal approach of 7 at the beginning followed by a grind at the end? (at least in a non-Survival PVE where points are less inflated) Not that I think this is very likely outside of computer assisted playing.
      • I won't be playing in this event or any other event you run with these specifications.
      • Ebolamonkey84
        Ebolamonkey84 Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
        pabasa130 wrote:
        fmftint wrote:
        This sounds terrible, new optimal will be, hit all 7x, walk away, grind the last 2 hours

        Not sure how different that is from today. Two hour grind before end of subevent has always been what people do anyway. The only change is instead of waiting 8 hours people can just do the first 7 at any time (preferably as early as possible).

        This is very different. Currently, you hit once at the start, once at 8 hours in, once at 16 hours in, grind 6 times in last 2-3 hours.

        Now, it sounds like you hit 7 times at the start, then grind 5 times in last 2-3 hours. The refresh timer doesn't start until after that 7th time, so if you wait to hit it seven times you will miss out on the point regeneration.
      • fmftint
        fmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
        Of course with a 20 point floor the whole thing could turn into, who can play 20 point nodes the longest. Get everything to 20 then grind the easiest ad infinitum
      • JamesV
        JamesV Posts: 98 Match Maker
        Sounds interesting. I wonder how this will effect progression.
      • TLCstormz
        TLCstormz Posts: 1,668
        fmftint wrote:
        This sounds terrible, new optimal will be, hit all 7x, walk away, grind the last 2 hours
        This. Imagine it. Grind in the end each node 5 times till 20 (the new 1) and for zero iso. 5*9=45 battles. And right away, the new sub starts, another 7*9=63 battles. 108 in a row for the optimal grind. And this in an event with wave nodes.

        Wait........WAT????? lol. Are those truly the figures it will calculate out to?
      • udonomefoo
        udonomefoo Posts: 1,630 Chairperson of the Boards
        I think you guys going on about optimal grinds are overlooking a key statement:
        Our goal with this change is to make Story events more about beating challenging missions rather than having to beat missions quickly at set intervals during the day.

        My bet is that the difficulty will scale through those first six clears in a way that makes it nearly impossible to hit each node 12 times in a day without spending ludicrous amounts of HP on health packs, making pve more about surviving long enough to play as many clears as possible with a "grind all nodes to dust" strategy being nearly impossible. We shall see.
      • slidecage
        slidecage Posts: 2,948 Chairperson of the Boards
        I would like to thank you for killing PVE if this is the new PVE...

        You might as well just do away with PVE all together and make it a Gaunlet 100% of the time cause that is all the PVE is now...
      • GrumpySmurf1002
        GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
        Echoing what others have said, all I see now is having to clear nodes 11 times every 24 hours instead of 8-9 whatever it is. If you're competitive, you're now asked to play basically 4-6 hours straight, 2-3 before the end of a sub and 2-3 after. Oh, and the last 4 times you clear those nodes, you get zero rewards. Sounds like a blast!

        The nature of a bracketed reward system dictates you have to have some kind of deteriortation of points and optimal play for separation, but that just shows the flaw in such a system.

        My suggestion for your next drawing board that has to be gone back to:

        24 hours, 7 x nodes. Always worth the same, all rewards progression. Must clear everything to get max progression in each sub/event. Nice, neat, clean. No bracket shopping, no late joining, no death brackets, minor time requirements. And a happier player base.

        As far as the scaling, that's minor good news compared to asking the player base to give up more of their lives to MPQ.

        Alternatively, you'll get more like me, where this will be the end of competitive PvE. Either way. Blech to this.