5* MMR/scaling from 300-400

SnowcaTT · May 2016

I hear others folks talking about their stories of how MMR/scaling is, but often it is over a larger period of time as they slowly cover/level characters and have multiple 5*'s going. It is often a moving target as MMR/scaling changes as well. Here is my story of taking the first 5* straight from level 300 to level 400 in the last couple of weeks. I tested it in PVP in several slices, Sim, LR's, and ran PVE nodes every day. I only ran one of the new PVE "tests", so I can't really compare it to anything.

Notes: I had one buffed, champed, high-health 4* to run alongside each week (Cyc? IM?/Rhulk/Thing). This helps hit 1K in PVP without a 5* for sure, but it was getting tougher. I am not running line (which makes higher climbs much, MUCH easier), so I'm out there unprotected. I was using a 3/5/3 Phoenix here, my draws came in batches lately: 1/0/1 two seasons ago in about 10 draws, 1/0/1 last season in about 10 draws, then 2/1/0 in five draws yesterday to end my testing data with a 5/5/3.

300 (First week of season) - unusable. 4*'s are at 270 and quite willing to hit it, as well as boosted 3*'s. 5*'s are constantly hitting me, and I see 350+ OML's every other skip - this is why I even bothered leveling, what could possibly change when I went up?

325 (Second week of season) - your boosted/champed 4*'s are 350, and those teams hit the low 5*'s constantly (assuming uncovered/easy). Not high enough match damage to ward of many. Perhaps a few less 4* unboosted teams hit me, and hits from the 3*'s pretty much stop. Seems like 270 unboosted is just about as good for O and for a deterrent. uncovered 5*'s at 350(ish) are hitting it.

350 (End of 2nd/3rd week of season)- I essentially stop seeing 3* only teams. I can see them around my rankings in PVP's - I can watch them unshield above my points in PVP and run their entire shield-hop without me ever seeing them. [And I find this quite unfair - if they are in my brackets, and getting the points, why can't I find/hit them?]. Now the 5* is equal to another boosted 4*, and the 4* hits essentially stop unless they have two boosted ones. 5* hits also slow since you are equal to many of the uncovered 5*'s that have level-maxed. In sim my float point increases to about 1800.

375 (End of 3rd/4th week of season) - At this point you are well above boosted 4*'s, and I realize I'll never use Jean again and will have to run the 5* even with characters that color overlap. Why, hello there newbie! Around this level, obviously you pop into a higher MMR visiblity. Suddenly attacks from 5*'s seemed to dramatically increase. The level maxed 405/430's see you as the low-man on the totem pole. The two 5* teams are happy to see you again! I'm still seeing the occasionally boosted 3*/unboosted 4*: but they are the rare, rare animal out there. The best I can hope to find regularly are two unboosted 4*'s, also rare after 800. I now see why when I ran Jeanbuster a few seasons back it was a target - this is what I'm hoping to find. I see a 350+ at least two in three matches now, rather than one in two I saw them in originally.

400 (Fourth week of season/Today)- I meant to run this report all the way up to 425, but then I drew three Phoenix (to 3/5/5) in five LT's yesterday, which may have screwed up my baseline. Then again, I probably always give folks more credit than deserved for looking at rosters rather than just hitting them. I was going to wait for another set of LR's to release this data, may as well throw it out there now. Still taking the occasional hit in PVP/Sim from (mostly) two 5* teams.

Future: Obviously not only is it a 5* game, but it's a two 5* game. With only one, that (stunnable) dangerous character can get into a stun-lock. It is not equivilant 5*/buffed 4* that I'm seeing hit me often - it's 5*/5* (both 375+, much more often 405+). Folks warned me about shifting MMR into that range before having a 2nd 5* (not even close) - I'm not concerned about -my- MMR at 400, but I'm concerned that I have obviously popped into the highest tier ability to view/hit.

PVP: from 300 to 400 it didn't matter - I tended to be in T50 if anywhere above 450 before the last day, and anytime I was above T50 (at almost any point level) I was fresh meat when floating out there. However, it didn't feel as hot in between shield hops as I leveled past 375; less out there at any given time that are willing to hit you. My float point in the last 8 hours also went much higher (from maybe 600 to maybe 725+)

PVE: essentially scaled the entire time, almost a level for a level 1:1. By the end of my leveling, the first non-trival nodes that would have been ~200 a couple weeks ago are now ~300 (despite having only one character above 295. That's some crazy scaling, surprised they don't average your top characters, should scale 1:3 not 1:1!). Suddenly I see why everyone hates Ares/Juggy at level 300, basically a level I never saw them at before: winfinite becomes a 50/50 proposition and I wonder if I'll need to PVE with -one- character forever. God forbid the times when Jean is essential.

LR's: Like Sim, this is where the 5* makes more of a difference. Since nothing is boosted, you suddenly rule the 4*-only roost when you start getting higher. Just like 4* only, using any level 5* will get me T25/50 when I run the event late. At 350 the 4* hits stopped but the 5's still wouldn't use that "skip" button often. At 375 it seems like I can run the seeds early and not take many (sometimes no) hits while sitting at that 210 point level.

-Just my experience in Season XXVII, I kept looking for stories like this so I thought I'd share mine.

TxMoose · May 2016

thanks snowcatt for doing this. this is exactly the kinds of info that people making 5* leveling decisions need.

BigBZ32 · May 2016

This is great info. I can bring my Phoenix to 375, but after seeing this I'm not sure if I should. In Fresh Cut, I used 360 Phoenix and 330 OML and I felt it was a good spot. I'll probably wait to bring Phoenix up until I have an equal OML.

mpqr7 · May 2016

I'm excited but terrified to have a second high-level 5*. I'm sure suddenly I'll have very few available opponents and get clobbered by people with champed 5*s. But what else can I aspire for?

That's why I haven't leveled up any of my other 5*s... I'm waiting until I have one I can push up to the high 300s (or can get SS straight to Champion, because he's not as good).

PeterGibbons316 · May 2016

I'll share my experience as well.....

I had a 330 OML for a long time, and an undercovered Phoenix for a while as well. I went through a stash of LTs, CP, and some lucky pulls and by the end of last season had a maxed Phoenix needing ISO and an 8 cover OML. I finally got her to 450 recently and also leveled slowly through events......

All of my experiences are in S5 for what it's worth.....

330 OML w/ boosted 4*s: Here I'm seeing boosted 3*s and 4*s from the start, and life is good. I occasionally get hit by some 5* teams, but nothing terrible, and I can spot the occasional 5* team as well. I can easily climb to 800 and see cakes, and usually push to 1k before first shield. I get stuck in the friend zone around 600-700, but can usually power through by taking a couple low point fights to get me to cake range. The variety here is awesome, and PvE is manageable. PvP fun factor: 10, PvE fun factor: 8

360 OML, w/ 360 JG: 3* teams are starting to disappear, but I'm still using my boosted 4*s over my 360 5*s with some frequency. I'm exposed to more 5* teams and taking more hits. The climb is noticeably tougher than previously, and my roster isn't any stronger because I'm still using my 4*s quite a bit here, I actually found myself shielding as soon as I hit cake range around 800-900 for these few events. PvE is tougher, but still manageable. PvP fun factor: 7, PvE fun factor: 7

375 OML w/ 405 JG: 3* teams are completely gone, most of what I see is 5* teams, but boosted 4*s pop up often enough for me to climb. The climb is still tough, but I can usually push through to 1100+ before first shield. Tough PvE nodes require the use of JG, lack of variety here makes this not as much fun for me. PvP fun factor: 8, PvE fun factor: 5

375 OML w/ 450 JG: 4* teams are gone until I get up over 1k and then it's open season. The climb to 800 is a real PITA and avoiding friendly targets is nearly impossible. I'm using more health packs in PvP than I have since I was in 2* land. Once I hit 1k though MMR opens up and I find 3* and 4* teams that aren't always worth much, but I can hit them anyway knowing they are unlikely to retal. Every once in a while they hit back though and it hurts. I often get over 1200 before dropping my first shield. Instead of being forced to shield as soon as I hit 1k I can actively play - yeah I get hit by other 5* teams, but it's not so fast that I don't have time to get some battles in myself to make up the points. And I no longer have to worry about guys with two 5*s hitting me knowing I won't retal because I actually can fight back now. PvE requires JG, but is a breeze. I don't even use my 4*s on easy nodes because JG is just so much faster. I can get through multiple clears without a single health pack, and full clears are taking closer to 15 minutes than my previous 25. Right now the speed makes up for the lack of variety for me, and I find myself slightly more competitive in PvE just because clears are so quick. PvP fun factor: 9, PvE fun factor: 8

So for me fun factor was highest with a diverse field of champed 4*s (I have 9 I think). The slog through 360-405 5*s was rough, and even though my PvP climbs with a single maxed 5* are harder than they have ever been, I'm still having quite a bit of fun. My recommendation for anyone questioning taking the plunge is to stay around that 360 (maybe 345-350 to be safe) mark and test the waters a bit, and wait until you have 11-13 covers for either OML and/or JG before jumping in.

Jarvind · May 2016

This makes me glad I've capped my OML at 325 for now. PVE scaling is already kinda gross (26k Moonstones, yay!) and I don't think I'm quite ready to start regularly taking on 5*s all the time.

dr tinykittylove · May 2016

I've got my OML at 370 and see lots of 5*+other teams of varying levels. But it's not nearly as much of a pain as feared since I have a good number of usable top tier 4*s and all 3*s champed and they work well enough together with OML to take down other 5*+4* teams fairly comfortably, barring the sudden and inevitable cascades.

Peculiar thing is running into the MMR limbo at higher scores where I get matched with actual live, 1-2* players worth 1 point. I wonder how they would feel if I hopped out of the blue just to stomp on them... like ****????

I'm thinking about saving enough iso to max out all my Classic 5*s (OML/JG/SS) in one go, but that's not a decision that can be reversed if I don't like where it talrs me. Also, iso. 1.5 million for just these 3... so much not fun. And what did I work to build all my 4*s for if they're going to be virtually unusable after?

PeterGibbons316 · May 2016

dr tinykittylove wrote:

Peculiar thing is running into the MMR limbo at higher scores where I get matched with actual live, 1-2* players worth 1 point. I wonder how they would feel if I hopped out of the blue just to stomp on them... like ****????

This is a great way for top end players to farm ISO actually, and since the little guys are losing single digit points it's really not the end of the world for them.

Pongie · May 2016

For someone with 19xx command points and hoping to get one useable 5* from the pulls, this is disheartening to read. Basically means I have to luck out and get 2 useable 5* to even stand a chance.

OneLastGambit · May 2016

These stories make me glad that I decided to keep my oml where he is for now..

I'm really reticent to level 5* at least until the player base has more variety in their teams

Yeah it might make things easier and gives a higher float in PvP but the trade off is super boredom. No thanks I play for fun not prizes

SnowcaTT · May 2016

Pongie wrote:

For someone with 19xx command points and hoping to get one useable 5* from the pulls, this is disheartening to read. Basically means I have to luck out and get 2 useable 5* to even stand a chance.

I forgot to mention here that it has really helped in PVP - since I lost Line (no SMS) I haven't hit 1300, and since I leveled to 375+ I've hit 1300 pretty easily. Two shields so far, but I've been pushing early to hit 1300 with about 8 hours remaining - might only need one if I pushed later (or leveled a bit more). It makes PVE harder, but it makes PVP much easier.

But if you're behind the top folks like I was/am, you'll find you'll still be behind if you only level one five star. You definitely have a chance! I just depends what you want to do - probably won't be hitting 1st in PVP's, but you could probably (?) top-10 with lots of shields and time/coordination.

Others mention here kind of the "sweet spot" - 350 (but not over 375) seems great until you're ready to max a couple of 5*'s, and if you have a boosted 4* you have two 350's (though two 5*'s would obviously be better for match damage).

lukewin · May 2016

My OML is capped at 360 and Phoenix at 330. My 4* are also underleveled at 200, which might play into it as well. I mainly play in S1. I don't see dual 5* teams that often, although I get hit by all kinds of teams. I still see boosted 3* teams, max 4* teams, and I think I'm in a great spot for my casual level of play. 1k isn't a problem, and if I want 1.3k, I'll use 2-3 shields and use a BC to line up cc's, since that's the most effective way to do it without trying to max any 4*. I mainly use my 360 3/1/3 OML and 199 5/4/3 Nova in PVP. Will add the 3 ISO to take Nova to 200 once I get that last yellow.

Todzilla · May 2016

i have my 2/2/3 maxed at 360 and won't level him anymore when i pull more covers. I also have a 12 cover surfer parked at 290 just to avoid mmr troubles. I just champed my 4th 4* (thing) and plan on not leveling any 5* until i have at least 8 champed 4* toons. Right now i can still see 3* boosted teams even past 1k so i seem to have found a sweet spot for now

Phumade · May 2016

Todzilla wrote:

i have my 2/2/3 maxed at 360 and won't level him anymore when i pull more covers. I also have a 12 cover surfer parked at 290 just to avoid mmr troubles. I just champed my 4th 4* (thing) and plan on not leveling any 5* until i have at least 8 champed 4* toons. Right now i can still see 3* boosted teams even past 1k so i seem to have found a sweet spot for now

Thats probably too conservative. Once your past 5 champed 4*, your real goal becomes make sure you have good color coverage (i.e. not all pink /green users), Once you got backup champed 4* for all the major color combinations, start saving for your 5*. Additional champed 4* are effectively surplus at that point. Yes, I know there are economic reasons to get all characters on the champed path. But I would keep an ISO bank min = to insta max my 5* to their current softcap. Any Iso over that amount goes to 4* projects.

Transitioning into 5* is about going through discrete power jumps from sweet spot to sweet spot. Once you make the commitment to jump to the next tier, its better to do it in one shot to reduce frustration.

Bulls · May 2016

Phumade wrote:

Todzilla wrote:

i have my 2/2/3 maxed at 360 and won't level him anymore when i pull more covers. I also have a 12 cover surfer parked at 290 just to avoid mmr troubles. I just champed my 4th 4* (thing) and plan on not leveling any 5* until i have at least 8 champed 4* toons. Right now i can still see 3* boosted teams even past 1k so i seem to have found a sweet spot for now

Thats probably too conservative. Once your past 5 champed 4*, your real goal becomes make sure you have good color coverage (i.e. not all pink /green users), Once you got backup champed 4* for all the major color combinations, start saving for your 5*. Additional champed 4* are effectively surplus at that point. Yes, I know there are economic reasons to get all characters on the champed path. But I would keep an ISO bank min = to insta max my 5* to their current softcap. Any Iso over that amount goes to 4* projects.

Transitioning into 5* is about going through discrete power jumps from sweet spot to sweet spot. Once you make the commitment to jump to the next tier, its better to do it in one shot to reduce frustration.

But why should I be a hurry in transition to 5* land? They doesn't make game much easier, if at all. Power we can achiev by lvling 5* is diminshed by a fact that in pve our opponents scale as fast as we, but by lvling our 5* we're reducing character diversity that we can use to fight those harder opponents. In pvp leveling 5* takes us into deeper waters where we're gonna be eaten by even bigger fishes. Diverse 4* roster allows to get 1.3k placement easly as well and if some want to go even higher they have to rely on cupcakes anyway.

I'm not saying it will be always like that but for now when diverse 4* roster allow us to enjoy every aspect of game and 5* aquisition rate depends only on luck, I really don't see a point to rush forwars.

SnowcaTT · May 2016

lukewin wrote:

My OML is capped at 360 and Phoenix at 330. My 4* are also underleveled at 200, which might play into it as well. I mainly play in S1. I don't see dual 5* teams that often, although I get hit by all kinds of teams. I still see boosted 3* teams, max 4* teams, and I think I'm in a great spot for my casual level of play. 1k isn't a problem, and if I want 1.3k, I'll use 2-3 shields and use a BC to line up cc's, since that's the most effective way to do it without trying to max any 4*. I mainly use my 360 3/1/3 OML and 199 5/4/3 Nova in PVP. Will add the 3 ISO to take Nova to 200 once I get that last yellow.

That's definitely the sweet spot. I'm in S1 this time, ran to 650 last night (a 2nd problem brought up viewtopic.php?f=7&t=44643 there, hit back down to 550 this morning and still T50 with less than 12 hours left!). Five hits overnight - every single one was two 405+ characters. They are out there, and they probably don't see you.

Bowgentle · May 2016

Don't be afraid to level a single 5* as high as it goes once you have a few top tier 4*s leveled.
Caveat: That 5* has to be OML.

If Phoenix is your only 5* with 5+ covers I'd let her sit at 255 - she's practically useless without a lot of purple and red covers, or less than 7/8 covers total.

OML you can level to his soft cap from 1/1/1 onwards.

I'll hit a level 360 Phoenix without second thought, whereas a 360 OML will give me pause.

Tl;dr: always level OML.
Don't level Phoenix unless you have OML to run with her.
Never level Surfer unless you can champ him.

rbdragon · May 2016

Bowgentle wrote:

Don't be afraid to level a single 5* as high as it goes once you have a few top tier 4*s leveled.
Caveat: That 5* has to be OML.

If Phoenix is your only 5* with 5+ covers I'd let her sit at 255 - she's practically useless without a lot of purple and red covers, or less than 7/8 covers total.

OML you can level to his soft cap from 1/1/1 onwards.

I'll hit a level 360 Phoenix without second thought, whereas a 360 OML will give me pause.

Tl;dr: always level OML.
Don't level Phoenix unless you have OML to run with her.
Never level Surfer unless you can champ him.

I can't say I fully agree with this - my only usable 5* is Surfer and I max leveled him with each cover. He's now 5/5/2 level 435, and has been instrumental in how far I've come along. He's the reason I've been able to champion as many 4* as I have now.

My personal caveat is I've never worried about scaling or MMR - what will be will be. That doesn't mean I'm happy about it, I just....meh....

Having said that - I really wish I could pull a red OML...

Phumade · May 2016

Bulls wrote:

But why should I be a hurry in transition to 5* land? They doesn't make game much easier, if at all. Power we can achiev by lvling 5* is diminshed by a fact that in pve our opponents scale as fast as we, but by lvling our 5* we're reducing character diversity that we can use to fight those harder opponents. In pvp leveling 5* takes us into deeper waters where we're gonna be eaten by even bigger fishes. Diverse 4* roster allows to get 1.3k placement easly as well and if some want to go even higher they have to rely on cupcakes anyway.

I'm not saying it will be always like that but for now when diverse 4* roster allow us to enjoy every aspect of game and 5* aquisition rate depends only on luck, I really don't see a point to rush forwars.

A fair and reasonable question.

I'm at day 730 in my progression, so I've actually played the game at a T25 level as it went from 3* to 4* to 5*. IMHO the 5* have the most unique and interesting powersets especially when combined with the 4* support chars. I can't tell you how many of thousands of fist/busters , jean/buster, rhulk/buster, rhulk/clops, combos I've had to kill. So in a lot of ways 4* matches were pretty repetitive.

The 5* tier have chars with a wide and diverse powerset that are fun to use with other teams. Bssm/ Gwen/ MM, etc... I imagine that d3 is growing their content in this direction and I wanted to open my roster into this part of the game.

I have 15 4* champs so theirs no real incentive for me to max another. In fact I created a new mini tier of 150 for covermaxed 4* that I intentionally soft capped. Opening up 5* on the other hand let me play different combos, and also play LR on competitive basis with no costs in hp. So it made a lot of sense to migrate to 5*, especially since they are in my daily awards.

I guess ultimately play whatever tier is fun for you. I'm sure there are people who swear by the 2* tier because it has all the classic chars they remember.

PurdyPrince · November 2016

My OML is at 12 covers (5/2/5) and my worry is that if I level him above 400 i will start to see 5* teams all the time. Right now my Phoenix is also at 330 and I took the plunge and leveled OML to 360 so I will see what the effect on my scaling is in the coming future. I just wonder should I spend the CP eventually to champion him or wait until I have more 5*s. I have 17 4*s champed and I'm interested to know how the scaling is for someone in PVE and PVP with one 5* above 400 or champed with on 5* at 330 and many 4*s champed.

WelcomeDeath · November 2016

Who brought out the smelling salts? This thread has been long since forgotten by most. One 5* only, id say stop at 400. One 5* at this level won't hurt your scaling, and you can pair him with the 4* flavor of the week in pvp. Pve scaling will go up, but it'll be very doable with oml healing and dropping strikes. Champing the first 5* makes a big difference in pvp for sure, and somewhat in pve, but even then it's not bad. Champing a second 5*....you get into an entirely different pvp band and pve becomes considerably worse, this is probably the biggest scaling jump for pve. 3rd 5* champ does nothing for pvp...but hurts almost as much as the second champ for pve. Still very doable, but matches take a lot longer, and there's no more im40/boosted iceman to take out whole pve nodes. Well there is...but you may have to do it a few times to take out the 55k+ hp enemies you're facing. Newer 5* appear to address that, but I wouldn't know, I don't have them yet.

5* MMR/scaling from 300-400

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