Character Rebalance Plan

David [Hi-Fi] Moore
David [Hi-Fi] Moore Posts: 2,872 Site Admin
edited September 2016 in MPQ General Discussion
Hi everyone,

Anthony and Dave at Demiurge sent word on plans for a new character rebalancing philosophy. Read on for details:
    We are going to start making changes to characters in the game with the goal of creating a more balanced playing environment. To kick off these changes, the Lead Designer on
Marvel Puzzle Quest, Dave Guskin, would like to pass along a message describing the rebalance philosophy to the players.

"Our team has been looking at the health of the competitive game in MPQ, and we’ve started to identify ways to change some of the characters that are much weaker or stronger than others at the same rarity.

Our goal is to provide a more diverse competitive experience - more variety in teams encourage different strategies and more fun ways to play! Some ubiquitous, strong characters dominate competitive play - we want to reduce the power of those characters just enough so that other characters of the same rarity can compete with them for a spot. We also want to increase the power of underpowered characters - the ones sitting on the bench, fun and interesting but not powerful enough to compete - to give them another shot at competitive play.

So, beginning with the close of this Versus season, we’ll start releasing more regular updates to existing characters.

At the end of each Versus season, if we have characters to change, we’ll message those changes out.

At the start of the next season, we’ll enact those changes to characters and give players an opportunity to sell changed characters for increased value due to the changes.

This is an ongoing process - we don’t expect to achieve perfect balance overnight, but our goal is to regularly address the most significant issues in the competitive character landscape. Our team is interested in hearing your thoughts on these changes - play with them, see how you feel, and let us know which characters you’d like to see updated next!"

More information on the first characters to be rebalanced will be on Monday, September 19th.
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Comments

  • udonomefoo
    udonomefoo Posts: 1,630 Chairperson of the Boards
    "David wrote:
    Moore"]Some ubiquitous, strong characters dominate competitive play - we want to reduce the power of those characters just enough so that other characters of the same rarity can compete with them for a spot. We also want to increase the power of underpowered characters - the ones sitting on the bench, fun and interesting but not powerful enough to compete - to give them another shot at competitive play.

    I'm all about more balance, but please take care with power reductions. If you're only looking at how they play vs the same rarity then players who are in transitions will suffer.
  • SnagglePuss
    SnagglePuss Posts: 702 Critical Contributor
    So which current 3*/4*/5* meta defining character(s) are getting nerfed icon_e_biggrin.gif
  • mpqr7
    mpqr7 Posts: 2,642 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm excited about improvements. I'm terrified of any nerfs that you do. There's one character in particular that I really don't want you to nerf icon_e_confused.gif

    A good improvement can work out very well! star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_ironman.png went from unloved to feared! The battery boost was all it took!
  • notamutant
    notamutant Posts: 855 Critical Contributor
    This is good news, although I am glad I have multiple 4 stars maxed. I would be really upset if I had spent CP to cover max a certain 4 star or 5 star only to have them be nerfed, and had no other usable 4/5 stars. I am almost certain OML will receive a nerf to healing since everyone uses him, and he is probably the best covered 5 star.
  • DFiPL
    DFiPL Posts: 2,405 Chairperson of the Boards
    "David wrote:
    Moore"]Hi everyone,

    Anthony and Dave at Demiurge sent word on plans for a new character rebalancing philosophy. Read on for details:
      We are going to start making changes to characters in the game with the goal of creating a more balanced playing environment. To kick off these changes, the Lead Designer on
    Marvel Puzzle Quest, Dave Guskin, would like to pass along a message describing the rebalance philosophy to the players.

    "Our team has been looking at the health of the competitive game in MPQ, and we’ve started to identify ways to change some of the characters that are much weaker or stronger than others at the same rarity.

    Our goal is to provide a more diverse competitive experience - more variety in teams encourage different strategies and more fun ways to play! Some ubiquitous, strong characters dominate competitive play - we want to reduce the power of those characters just enough so that other characters of the same rarity can compete with them for a spot. We also want to increase the power of underpowered characters - the ones sitting on the bench, fun and interesting but not powerful enough to compete - to give them another shot at competitive play.

    So, beginning with the close of this Versus season, we’ll start releasing more regular updates to existing characters.

    At the end of each Versus season, if we have characters to change, we’ll message those changes out.

    At the start of the next season, we’ll enact those changes to characters and give players an opportunity to sell changed characters for increased value due to the changes.

    This is an ongoing process - we don’t expect to achieve perfect balance overnight, but our goal is to regularly address the most significant issues in the competitive character landscape. Our team is interested in hearing your thoughts on these changes - play with them, see how you feel, and let us know which characters you’d like to see updated next!"

    More information on the first characters to be rebalanced will be on Monday, September 19th.

    Thanks for communicating, David. Look forward to seeing the additional details.
  • fmftint
    fmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
    You understand the poop storm you're going to create for yourself if a 5☆ that many spent $$$$$ building gets nerfed
  • It's about time Cho got nerfed. That boy is in every team.
  • ngoni
    ngoni Posts: 112 Tile Toppler
    R.I.P OML. You never saw the nerf bat coming.
  • Stax the Foyer
    Stax the Foyer Posts: 941 Critical Contributor
    edited September 2016
    I know this has already been taken into account, most likely, but two things to consider:

    1) Increased use can be a function of accessibility, as much as power. Some of the more recent 4*s are similar in power level to the old standbys like Hulkbuster and Jean, but those older characters will see much more use because people have had a chance to cover and level them. Similarly, the ubiquitous nature of OML is at least partially a function of his early release date, and the ability to choose the pool of 5*s that you're pulling for. Championed 5* lock-in is a real thing.

    2) When relative balance is the issue, please avoid nerfs unless absolutely necessary. Buffs, even meta-changing buffs like IM40s, are much more fun than nerfs. I'd rather play a wide variety of characters because I think the new versions seem fun and useful, not because my old A-team doesn't work as well as it used to.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2016
    Thanks for announcing these plans in advance. I look forward to more details.

    If I can add a cautionary note: please do not confuse strength with rarity.

    Peggy is very strong. But she does not dominate play because she remains quite rare.

    JG and IMHB are still pretty strong, but they dominate play less because of their strength than because of their age.

    If you want to adjust the meta, you should change Peggy before imhb/jg. But the ulraw usage data won't tell you that.

    Also, rebalancing is fine in a vacuum. Rebalancing is much Much less fine when champ'ing a 4* costs several months worth of iso. That's a massive opportunity cost go up in flames after a rebalance. Please consider ways to fix this issue without forcing players to completely sell their characters for any compensation.
  • Blahahah
    Blahahah Posts: 738 Critical Contributor
    So TA Hulk and Drax buffs then? Also Ant Man is supposidly low tier too, better buff that guy.

    I'd be fine with selling off my Jean Grey tbh too.

    Also
    You understand the poop storm you're going to create for yourself if a 5☆ that many spent $$$$$ building gets nerfed

    This should never be a factor in a company's thinking. They spent money knowing there was a risk their flavor of the month (or year) might be toned down.
    It's a risk/reward investment. If it gets nerfed and they feel they wasted their money, then no one is to blame but them.
  • ViralCore
    ViralCore Posts: 157 Tile Toppler
    Will you also be revisiting PVE scaling since the you'll be weakening stronger characters?
  • Blahahah
    Blahahah Posts: 738 Critical Contributor
    edited September 2016
    Vhailorx wrote:
    Thanks for announcing these plans in advance. I look forward to more details.

    If I can add a cautionary note: please do not confuse strength with rarity.

    Peggy is very strong. But she does not dominate play because she remains quite rare.

    JG and IMHB are still pretty strong, but they dominate play less because of their strength than because of their age.

    If you want to adjust the meta, you should change Peggy before imhb/jg. But the ulraw usage data won't tell you that.

    Also, rebalancing is fine in a vacuum. Rebalancing is much Much less fine when champ'ing a 4* costs several months worth of iso. That's a massive opportunity cost go up in flames after a rebalance. Please consider ways to fix this issue without forcing players ti completely sell their characters.

    You'll be compensated back all of that iso and then some, so what's the issue? It's not like you're losing iso, and the permanence of leveling a character can be matched by simply leveling another character.
  • JamesV
    JamesV Posts: 98 Match Maker
    I know this has already been taken into account, most likely, but two things to consider:

    1) Increased use can be a function of accessibility, as much as power. Some of the more recent 4*s are similar in power level to the old standbys like Hulkbuster and Jean, but will see much more use because people have had a chance to cover and level them. Similarly, the ubiquitous nature of OML is at least partially a function of his early release date, and the ability to choose the pool of 5*s that you're pulling for.

    2) When relative balance is the issue, please avoid nerfs unless absolutely necessary. Buffs, even meta-changing buffs like IM40s, are much more fun than nerfs. I'd rather play a wide variety of characters because I the new versions seem fun, not because my old A-team doesn't work as well as it used to.

    I would like to double co-sign this. The vast majority of my maxed covered 4 stars are roughly a year old just because of accessibility. I'd love to play Kate Bishop or Moon Knight (both characters I once voted for) but I'm not whaling them so they are undercover and under usable.
  • We_are_Venom
    We_are_Venom Posts: 308 Mover and Shaker
    fmftint wrote:
    You understand the poop storm you're going to create for yourself if a 5☆ that many spent $$$$$ building gets nerfed

    Like they won't just spend money on the next op character.

    Apparently you want them to run every decision through whales first.

    They'll be fine when OML is balanced, it'll be OK.
  • So my OML (2 covers, thank you very much) will take a hit since apparently he is consider above average in every way, but my scaling will still count him as before, I suppose?

    Ah well, such is life in a digital medium, some days you lose, some days the others win. icon_e_confused.gificon_e_confused.gif

    Hopefully Cho will get some love along the way. Any other likely suspects?
  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,477 Chairperson of the Boards
    I sorta wonder why this wasn't the case from the very begining? The could easily rejuvenate the game by tweaking powers on a consistent and defined basis. Starcraft tweaks units all the time.
  • Blahahah
    Blahahah Posts: 738 Critical Contributor
    So my OML (2 covers, thank you very much) will take a hit since apparently he is consider above average in every way, but my scaling will still count him as before, I suppose?

    Ah well, such is life in a digital medium, some days you lose, some days the others win. icon_e_confused.gificon_e_confused.gif

    Hopefully Cho will get some love along the way. Any other likely suspects?

    Probably Drax, Mr. Fantastic. They're considered on the bottom tier as well.
  • Stax the Foyer
    Stax the Foyer Posts: 941 Critical Contributor
    Also
    "David wrote:
    Moore"]At the start of the next season, we’ll enact those changes to characters and give players an opportunity to sell changed characters for increased value due to the changes.

    The increased sell values need to include CP and ISO, not HP and ISO.

    Selling a rebalanced character needs to give a player ability to move resources into a new character. HP used to provide a significant portion of the value the last time characters were nerfed, but the value has been reduced drastically since then.
  • We_are_Venom
    We_are_Venom Posts: 308 Mover and Shaker
    Phumade wrote:
    I sorta wonder why this wasn't the case from the very begining? The could easily rejuvenate the game by tweaking powers on a consistent and defined basis. Starcraft tweaks units all the time.

    They are also a 20 billion dollar company. They've probably cancelled games at the cost MPQ has made in its entire run.

    It's an unfair comparison.