This just in

fmftint
fmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
edited April 2017 in MPQ General Discussion
https://d3publisher.helpshift.com/a/mar ... -2017&l=en

I'll just leave this here

Incase you don't want to click the link:

Message from Lead Designer on Character Updates (4/4/2017)
As you recall, we’ve been focusing on character updates that increase the power of those characters, and monitoring how well that’s impacted team diversity and the competitive experience. Over time, we’ve seen that 4-star character positive rebalances have significantly improved those characters’ usability and ability to win battles. However, the same has not been true of improvements to 5-stars such as Silver Surfer (Skyrider) and Steve Rogers (First Avengers), due in largest part to the ubiquity and strength of Wolverine (Old Man Logan).

Old Man Logan, as one of our first 5-stars and one of our first characters with multiple sets of powers, is stronger and significantly more useful than most other options for one’s team, even when he’s at low covers. Over 10% of all battles won include an Old Man Logan on the player’s team. This is higher than the win or play rate of any other character in the game even when those characters are Powered-Up. We believe that his ubiquity and power is reducing options for team composition - Old Man Logan is significantly better even than other 5-stars at low covers, and he’s pushing out otherwise viable 4-star and 5-star options because he warrants a permanent place on the team.

To that end, Old Man Logan will be our first major rebalance to decrease power since the start of our regular season rebalances. We hope that this change to Old Man Logan will be sufficient and that we can return to the rebalances that increase power we’ve been doing. We’ll continue to monitor how the metagame and team composition evolves - if you have feedback on character rebalances, such as this one, please let us know!
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Comments

  • Daiches
    Daiches Posts: 1,252 Chairperson of the Boards
    Tiny kitty to that.
    He's not even the strongest 5.

    Give me back my money.
  • Bondidude
    Bondidude Posts: 46 Just Dropped In
    I'm sure this will be a reasonable thread of discussion...
  • Pessi
    Pessi Posts: 170 Tile Toppler
    I think I'll remove the little gold heart from OML, just until the dust settles..
  • drcassino
    drcassino Posts: 141 Tile Toppler
    Especially fun that this is dropping right as the forum moves, so all of this will be lost in the transition anyway. I do not envy Brigby having to deal with the issue that's just been handed to him.
  • louiebh
    louiebh Posts: 2 Just Dropped In
    As a marvel fan i really love how MPQ ties the movie events to their game like PVE releases.

    As per the movie;

    Here lies an Old Man.

    RIP.

    X.(more like ex)
  • drcassino
    drcassino Posts: 141 Tile Toppler
    Moreover, it's reasonable to say that you think he's too powerful, or that he saves too many health packs for players. But the lower use of 5Cap isn't because of OML - it's because far fewer players have 5Cap. If 5Thanos or Black Bolt were as ubiquitous as OML, they'd be overused as well.
  • BlackBoltRocks
    BlackBoltRocks Posts: 1,158 Chairperson of the Boards
    Meanwhile I'm just here waiting for an Elektra buff...
  • GurlBYE
    GurlBYE Posts: 1,218 Chairperson of the Boards
    He'll likely still be strong, and the 5 players that have him likely have someone else by now that is of equal if not greater strength.

    So long as it's in within reason and not x factor wolverine level it should be fine.

    Also 10% of all victories?
    How many were fully covered I wonder.

    I'm guessing he's going to lose true healing. (if he has it, I just got my first red cover like 3 weeks ago)
  • xidragonxi
    xidragonxi Posts: 253 Mover and Shaker
    drcassino wrote:
    Moreover, it's reasonable to say that you think he's too powerful, or that he saves too many health packs for players. But the lower use of 5Cap isn't because of OML - it's because far fewer players have 5Cap. If 5Thanos or Black Bolt were as ubiquitous as OML, they'd be overused as well.

    I don't know why this isn't blatantly obvious to the devs. If they can't see this then they're just plain foolish. OML was the second released 5*. At the time of his release, Surfer wasn't very good, so everyone focused their efforts on OML. Combine that with the fact that he saves on health packs and OF COURSE he's going to be the most-used 5*. If Surfer was better when he was released, he'd be the most-used. It's a longevity thing, not an over-powered thing.

    I have a level 435 OML that I've been waiting for the last cover for for over a year. Nerfing him pisses me off. Players should get back the ISO they invested in their OMLs if this change is drastic. I guess we'll wait and see what the change actually is before lighting the pitchforks.
  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,487 Chairperson of the Boards
    Heh. I'm finally getting my 13th cover for OML later this week, but it doesn't matter since I won't have the Iso for him for at least a month or two. Also, I have Bolt, Widow, and Strange all covered, so this nerf won't affect me particularly. I guess it does mean I'll be seeing less OML in PVP, though, which is too bad. I'd rather deal with him than Bolt, really.

    Though all in all no character can really make a board go to tinykitty quite like Phoenix...

    My roundabout opinion on this is that I think a nerf is both unnecessary and a bad idea - I think he's not in any way overpowered, and as other people say here he barely brushes up against the top 5 5*s... Still, I'll wait and see what they do with it before I say anything substantial.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited April 2017
    Continues to show how out of touch the devs are. The prevalence of OML has nothing to do with his skill and everything to do with the fact that it was easy to get 5* when there were only a few now it get's harder every day... I doubt this change (whatever it is) will significantly lower his use, unless the completely break him.

    EDIT: Also this is probably at least partially a mis-direct from the bonus covers disaster. Stir up a different hornet nest to get everyone distracted.
  • TheWerebison
    TheWerebison Posts: 431 Mover and Shaker
    I suppose it was inevitable. Too many people using him for high match damage, making him The Sponge That Will Not Die.

    Still. Sad to see that it will be changing. I swear, healing abilities have received more debuffs than anything else. May as well remove healing altogether and let us start each battle at full health, like in Puzzle Quest! Right?


    Right?





    ...right?...
  • nonnel1
    nonnel1 Posts: 28 Just Dropped In
    edited April 2017
    Why would you touch OML when there are more powerful 5*s out there. Of course OML is used a lot. It takes a half year to get enough covers to champ a 5*. He's been around a long time and Surfer sucked for the longest.

    Forum rage... commence
  • astrp3
    astrp3 Posts: 367 Mover and Shaker
    drcassino wrote:
    Moreover, it's reasonable to say that you think he's too powerful, or that he saves too many health packs for players. But the lower use of 5Cap isn't because of OML - it's because far fewer players have 5Cap. If 5Thanos or Black Bolt were as ubiquitous as OML, they'd be overused as well.

    I've heard people say this (OML is only used so much because he is the oldest 5* and more players have him), but I've also heard players say things like "MPQ is divided into two games - one for those that have an adequately covered OML and one for those that don't." I've also heard MQP YouTubers say that Thanos is now considered the best 5*, but they also say that he is replacing OML. I am not anywhere near 5* land so I have no idea of the accuracy of these statements. Of course, even if he isn't the most powerful 5*, his high usage rate (assuming it's not just because more people have him) could come from his health pack saving ability.

    I'd be interested in seeing how often OML is used in cases where a player has other 5*s of comparable level. I'm also assuming the "over 10%" win rate is an overall win rate. I wonder what OML's win rate would be if you excluded cases where neither player had him rostered and how it would compare to similar numbers for other characters.
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    D3/Demi logic:

    Release OML-make a ton of money off of him.

    Hmm, he doesn't use that many health packs. Something is wrong. Our health pack sales are down.

    Nerf OML- make money again of off Health pack sales.

    D3/Demi-High Five. Ooo. Better idea. Let's make a new forums right around this time frame so things won't transfer over. Even better idea.

    Customers: Do you guys and gals even play this game? Do you test anything? Do you even understand how any of this works?

    It is truly ashame what you are doing to this game. The amount of backlash will be unreal and the number of people that will be possibly quitting this game will be more than you think. Instead of fixing the 5* progression and 5* that are weaker (Banner) you attack the 2nd longest 5* out. Of course he is used a lot. Just truly ashame.
  • GurlBYE
    GurlBYE Posts: 1,218 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited April 2017
    I think people are confusing him being "too strong" with him reducing health pack usage, a source of income.

    People use the older 5 argument but silver surfer was the first, and got buffed and had the highest chance of being obtained, but the floodgates on 5 star access weren't really open until OML.

    There's no good reason for the nerf though. It's just kinda like doing it to do it.

    But I feel people will be rightfully upset though because there are a ton of **** characters getting no love.
  • xidragonxi
    xidragonxi Posts: 253 Mover and Shaker
    GrimSkald wrote:
    Though all in all no character can really make a board go to tinykitty quite like Phoenix....

    80% of the matches that I lose are because Phoenix loses her mind on me. Usually when I'm using OML!

    Teams also don't seem to have much issue beating up on my defensive team when I use OML. I really don't understand this perception that he's overpowered.
  • drcassino
    drcassino Posts: 141 Tile Toppler
    Honestly, this may be the last straw for me on this game. I'm at Day 1000, I have 36 champed 4s.... and exactly one finished 5, OML. I've really enjoyed this game. I wrote most of the tinykitty FAQ. If he's nerfed badly, I'm stuck in a 4/5* MMR without a useful 5*. I don't use 5Cap or Surfer because I don't have them: 6 covers on 5Cap, 8 on Surfer. If I tried to use them, I'd be destroyed in PVP, and badly outscaled in PVE. I've been hoarding for months to try and keep up with the Black Bolts and Thanoses that are driving high end PVP now: if I lose the one character that lets me compete, I'm out.
  • OneLastGambit
    OneLastGambit Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    Come on man, those people saying his power set has nothing to do with his popularity and lay all the blame on distribution are wrong.

    I think the primary reason is his powerset, more specifically the best true heal in the game which saves health packs. The distribution is a solid reason but it isn't primary.

    I imagine he will get his true heal toned down or maybe even switched to burst heal instead. Thematically speaking it made no sense for him to have the best true heal in the game since in both the book and film his healing is failing him.
  • Elayne
    Elayne Posts: 23
    I run oml because I have two five stars. Scaling and mmr forces me to run two five stars. If I had other options I'd use them. If he is over used below 450 fine fix lower covers or levels but don't punish those running champed omls when there are far more powerful five stars like thanos
This discussion has been closed.